Curse

Flash Dilithium · Apr 12, 2012, 02:31 AM // 02:31

I've gotten very tired of hearing people complain about how poor Rangers are in PvE. There are many people whining to Arena-Net about reworking the Ranger profession as a whole. The real problem is that these players just don't pay attention to past Ranger bars that have fallen out of fashion due to PvP nerfs that are still perfectly legitimate, and extremely overpowered, in PvE.

Skills:

Prepared Shot
Penetrating Attack
Sundering Attack
Hunter's Shot
Read the Wind
"I Am the Strongest!"
Drunken Master
Death Pact Signet

Attributes:

Expertise: 12+1+1
Marksmanship: 12+1
Restoration Magic: 3

Equiptment:
Vampiric Flatbow

Varient for higher DPS:
Hunter's Shot --> Point Blank Shot
Death Pact Signet --> Ebon Battle Standard of Honor

This is the classic Turret Ranger that was abused in GvG for a few months that has been modified for use in PvE. It does massive DPS (try it yourself against the Master Of Damage) and it's pretty fun to play.

Let me know what you think.

Here's a DPS image for reference:

Gabs88 · Apr 12, 2012, 02:42 AM // 02:42

If you don't mind post a 180 sec DPS vs Master of Damage?

drowze · Apr 12, 2012, 03:24 AM // 03:24

I use a variant that I slapped together myself... Gonna tinker a bit with it after seeing this, thanks for posting

.
Prepared shot is very underrated.

Also agree with you about rangers being good enough and don't need a rework.

Showtime · Apr 12, 2012, 04:14 AM // 04:14

If you are saying that that build is good enough to replace the current established damage dealers (100b/VOS/etc) in PVE, you are going to have to show and prove. Cuz I don't see it.

Conditional removal instead of res for some areas.

And no worries they won't buff the ranger especially with people like you insisting that that rangers haven't lost a step.

Can't wait for D3.

Gabs88 · Apr 12, 2012, 04:54 AM // 04:54

Lol, 100b/VoS is the best builds you could come up with? xD You're pretty clueless yourself I'd say.

DokkyDok · Apr 12, 2012, 05:31 AM // 05:31

Doesn't compare to what the ranger can do in the frontline

...Which doesn't compare to what A/W/D can do in the frontline.

Gabs88 · Apr 12, 2012, 05:52 AM // 05:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by DokkyDok

Doesn't compare to what the ranger can do in the frontline

...Which doesn't compare to what A/W/D can do in the frontline.

Actually I disagree. Ranger is top tier fronliner along with A/W/D and I'm having a lot of trouble deciding who's the best. A physical player is primarily a platform on which to discharge other effects such as splinter weapon, shatter hex, smite condition and similar. As well as having the ability to be the frontman in the group. Balling foes, discharing AoE attacks like RoJ or meteor shover where nobody will get hit.

While the dervish deals more AoE and has higher general armor, the warrior having more controlled spikes and even higher armor, and the assassin straight out dealing the most damage. The ranger has the highest speed, 75% permanent block chance and the highest elemental damage.

To avoid hijacking the thread with this discussion I'm just gonna post a bar, skill 8 beeing replaceable. But if you got any questions about this statement just PM me or make a thread of it's own.

Showtime · Apr 12, 2012, 06:32 AM // 06:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gabs88

Lol, 100b/VoS is the best builds you could come up with? xD You're pretty clueless yourself I'd say.

bwahaha na...

DPS was the stated goal. Those are what physicals used for dps on many pve teams. Being that I only farm with my sin nowadays, maybe I don't see the monthly changes, but I still don't see any team looking for RANGERS any where in PVE. If there are a lot better damage dealers than 100b and vos, Rangers just fell even further behind. Will this build change that?

I'm really not impressed with this thread so far cuz I know it's going to a dead end. Rangers wont replace anyone in pve for any role any time soon if ever. If this is "the best DPS a ranger can do" thread, then congrats. But it's not a new build. If this is a we can replace other damage dealers, I'm still not seeing it. So show me.

Also being that I've played this game since day 1, I've got to b/p and other builds that didn't require any excuses or bs that I've seen by ranger fans over the last few years. It was fun and if you didn't get to do those things I feel bad for you cuz those were the ranger's glory days.. And they weren't really OP per se. Devs decided that they wanted certain less popular toons to rule the game. Specifically faction toons. Ranger imo is the most popular class and that is why they are the worst or 2nd worse class to maybe Paragons.

BTW, who is this build designed to replace? Is it just a general damage build for a ranger and his heros? Is it faster than a basic PVE AP ranger? When I'm PVEing with my ranger I set up SOS etc, run into mob, drop spirits, release RoJers and that's about it. I can use a bow for probably 99% of hm, but it's not as fast as this and bow's have other limitations.

I have a nice collection of bows and would love to use them again and with d3 and gw2 almost here...

Gabs88 · Apr 12, 2012, 06:47 AM // 06:47

Long reply so gonna have to split it up:
1. What VoS / 100b provides and is good at, is not DPS but spike. And only when combined with MoP / Barbs. Other builds deal more damage over time. Compare apples with apples. Pious Restoration, Jagged+Fox+Death Blossom or Enduring Axe is typical DPS builds.

2. What PVE / PuG groups run is irrelevant, I can usually do whatever it is theyre doing with heroes, in half the time it would take me in a PuG. Primarily speaking Zaishen missions / bountys / VQ's since that's where this build would get used. They love SS Necros for god sake xD

3. While it's true this build will never be top tier the way builds such as AP builds are or good melee builds, mid tier alternatives is never a bad thing. And if he can prove it does DPS on par with other top tier builds then at least it's a build you can save and use for PVE teams with friends.

4. Seriously, try the bar I posted earlier. Way more efficient then spirit spamming as ranger.

Showtime · Apr 12, 2012, 07:07 AM // 07:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gabs88

4. Seriously, try the bar I posted earlier. Way more efficient then spirit spamming as ranger.

I may give it go, but it's another ranger build using some other classes weapon. Hammers, Scythes, daggers... I'm sure it's fun, but builds like that should be niche builds or just for fun imo. Ranger is the only class who primarily uses other classes weapons for HM pve. At least by those who are more concerned with time than anything else.

My Ranger SOS build isn't for damage. It's to lock up the mob for the rojers.

Gabs88 · Apr 12, 2012, 07:27 AM // 07:27

I agree with that, but the way I see it. Even if you could make a Bow build doing 100 DPS ranged. A melee build doing 50 would be able to outplay it in general PVE because of balling and spiking. And so would most AP builds.

The exact same goes for paragon. Which generally is even worse off then rangers again.

The build I posted above exploits the other strong suits of the ranger, which is stance-tanking, elemental armor and speed. It doesn't try to replace the assassin as a dagger spammer, but instead decreases the damage significantly (WoTA sin does almost 50% more) and in stead utilizes increased defense to keep a team efficient.

In that way I find it different from other R/ builds that attempt to be subpar versions of the original build.

ogre_jd · Apr 12, 2012, 12:28 PM // 12:28

I see, as usual, people comparing apples and oranges rather than apples and apples... ie, the question isn't how it compares to other professions for damage dealing, but how it compares to other Ranger (playing as a Ranger, with minimal reliance on their secondary - no using Expertise to run a bar mostly based on your secondary) damage builds. After all, even if it isn't the highest performance out of all the available options for Physical Damage Dealer, we do need builds for people who want to actually play a Ranger as something more substantial/visibly-effective as a second-rate interrupter and condition-spreader.

loopysnoopy · Apr 12, 2012, 01:25 PM // 13:25

High DPS rangers can be done with some thinking this means you don't have to have your ranger like a toolbox.

I have been using this on and off for about a year I find the energy return is better then Prepshot and it can spam the high energy ranger attacks for high DPS the one I'm posting is what I'm using at the current time. Attributes are Superior Marksman/Expertise up to you on this Minor rune of Marksman/expertise
Ie Sup Marks Minor Expert then surviour insig with vitae and what ever vigor you choose
13 expertise 16 Marksman

Template code : OgASc5MTvlOGnSMGuGzktlFH

Also Glass arrows is worth a mention
Superior Expertise Minor Marksman on this. 16 expertise and 13 Marksman the 16 expertise is just for increased power from glass but can be swapped aroun for 14 expertise 13 Marks then that leaves you with some points left over for what ever you need

Template code: OgASc5MTvSXGoSAAAAvlAAzk

EDIT: weapons I use for the marksman wager build is Flatbow Vamp or Recuve Vamp

Glass Arrows I use Shortbow Vamp Shortbow Sundering and a Zealous Shortbow incase with a longbow for pulling

Reformed · Apr 12, 2012, 01:34 PM // 13:34

Why R/Rt for a res when you could just as easily run R/W and take SY? I do cycle a prep shot bar very similar to this and it does work quite well OP.

DRGN · Apr 12, 2012, 02:29 PM // 14:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by ogre_jd

I see, as usual, people comparing apples and oranges rather than apples and apples... ie, the question isn't how it compares to other professions for damage dealing, but how it compares to other Ranger (playing as a Ranger, with minimal reliance on their secondary - no using Expertise to run a bar mostly based on your secondary) damage builds. After all, even if it isn't the highest performance out of all the available options for Physical Damage Dealer, we do need builds for people who want to actually play a Ranger as something more substantial/visibly-effective as a second-rate interrupter and condition-spreader.

It's impossible not to have a realistic discussion without considering other classes unless you live in a bubble where people simply can't pick another class. He was tired of people saying "rangers are poor in PvE", ignoring legitimate points that people have and problems with his own build; he sacrificed all his utility and interrupts for sheer single target damage; no SY, no interrupts, no other PvE skills, just 7 skills to do single target damage. It also makes the assumption that somehow people have never tried it and just have their heads stuck in the sand, not that they've tried it and similar builds and been underwhelmed. Not only that, he made the assertion of it being "extremely overpowered". Is anyone buying this?

Yeah, Rangers they can get by, but other classes do what they do better so they're rarely used. The same could have been said of Dervishes before their overhaul; yeah, they got by, but other classes did what they did better so they were rarely used. Does that mean Dervishes didn't need help? Ditto for Mesmers, except they were even worse off, yet there were a few people yelling at the top of the lungs that Mesmers were fine in PvE and people needed to lrn2play(and hilariously gave the example of PBlocking a shitty Dream Rider that could have easily been killed without said Mesmer). Some people are their own worst enemy. But hey, whatever, condemn your class to mediocrity. No skin off my nose because it's the only class I quit playing in PvE because other classes are better

Also, do note that this is a comparison of players and not heroes for several obvious reasons.

Reformed · Apr 12, 2012, 08:13 PM // 20:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by DRGN

...but other classes do what they do better so they're rarely used.

This is the worst sort of argument to make. Party selection at this point in the life of GW is an absolute joke, it's a single player game. You see more of particular professions because they can fill roles in profitable farms or SC.

To your point though unlike how scythe was in heavy secondary abuse the same can not be said of bows. Rangers should sacrifice the battlefield presence melee has simply because they are at range. If they did comparable DPS to melee but could attack from 1.2 radii something would be seriously wrong with the game. On the other hand when in melee range they are probably a close third best option as a 123 dagger chainer and would be higher if not for SY.

DRGN · Apr 12, 2012, 11:31 PM // 23:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reformed

This is the worst sort of argument to make. Party selection at this point in the life of GW is an absolute joke, it's a single player game. You see more of particular professions because they can fill roles in profitable farms or SC.

I suppose I could have been more clear when I said "rarely used". I meant they were often used less frequently by players, as in players actually playing them to start with. This is also why I said to ignore heroes in my argument.

Kunder · Apr 13, 2012, 12:10 AM // 00:10

Dagger rangers are actually really, really good. The only thing you really lose as a ranger by doing it is /w for SY. I much prefer a Brutal Lunge dagger/pet build to pure dagger attacks though.

Quote:

Prepared Shot
Penetrating Attack
Sundering Attack
Hunter's Shot
Read the Wind
"I Am the Strongest!"
Drunken Master
Death Pact Signet

No. Just No. Horrible skill choices here.

Needs EBSoH (+15 Damage). Needs Conjure (+15 Damage). Read the Wind is much worse than either glass arrows (10 more damage) or Ignite Arrows (15-20 more damage and AoE). So thats 50 damage per shot less you are doing than a real turret ranger.

Then you need to take Triple Shot because it's supposed to be the rape button for turret builds.

DokkyDok · Apr 13, 2012, 01:45 AM // 01:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gabs88

Actually I disagree. Ranger is top tier fronliner along with A/W/D and I'm having a lot of trouble deciding who's the best. A physical player is primarily a platform on which to discharge other effects such as splinter weapon, shatter hex, smite condition and similar. As well as having the ability to be the frontman in the group. Balling foes, discharing AoE attacks like RoJ or meteor shover where nobody will get hit.

While the dervish deals more AoE and has higher general armor, the warrior having more controlled spikes and even higher armor, and the assassin straight out dealing the most damage. The ranger has the highest speed, 75% permanent block chance and the highest elemental damage.

To avoid hijacking the thread with this discussion I'm just gonna post a bar, skill 8 beeing replaceable. But if you got any questions about this statement just PM me or make a thread of it's own.

http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/9677/edag.png

Escape --> Enraged Lunge
Lightning Reflexes --> NRA

Gabs88 · Apr 13, 2012, 02:57 AM // 02:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by DokkyDok

Escape --> Enraged Lunge
Lightning Reflexes --> NRA

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/p...t10434178.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8NgsqRolAk

This video is old but really is the best at explaing why youre wrong. Adding a pet makes aggro messy, and defence can translate in to damage when you play your cards right.

In a human team where aggro is all other the place though, you might be right. But with heroes, no contest at all.